The Opinions of Zoë and Luna

25 Responses to “Take 2”

1. Ha! First comment!

   Nightscream said this on January 22nd, 2009 at 8:48 am

2. So I lost my last reply (stupid podbean timed out) so I’m going to attempt to remember everything I said and retype it out.

   In reference to the casting of the Avatar movie, I have two very conflicting opinions on it. As a hardcore Avatar fan, I can’t help but be irked slightly by the casting choices (which is clearly what everyone else is feeling), but I can see why they did it. So far the only official cast members chosen are white, when none of them are portrayed so in the show. Why the hell was this done!? Shyamalan is racist! …slow down folks. I gave this whole casting thing a lot of thought (I was stuck at the DMV for an hour, and that was really all the time I needed) and came to a few conclusions.

   I wouldn’t go so far as to call this a racist situation by any means. If you are going to constantly be politically correct, then Taylor Lautner should not have played the role of Jacob Black since he’s actually white, Ziyi Zhang, Michelle Yoeh and Gong Li should not have been in Memoirs of a Geisha because they’re Chinese, not Japanese, Lea Salonga should never has been casted as Eponine in Les Mis, or sung for the rolls of Mulan and Jasmine, etc.

   When searching for an actor for a specific role, there is that huge list of requirements. First, the actor you seek must be the proper age, background, look, height, etc, PLUS the biggie: this person must be able to act. Second, if you find the right person, or have someone in mind, you have to make sure that person isn’t signed with another studio, or stuck in a contract with someone else. If you can think of people who have these qualities for the role of Sokka, Katara and Zuko (minus Dante Basco) then e-mail me a name and I will be sure to forward it to Shyamalan. You could of course hold open casting calls, but that’s a disaster in the making. Shyamalan’s movie budgets estimate around $70 million, and I would add to that due to the heavy CGI that’s going to be required for ‘The Last Airbender’. To take the risk of wasting such a huge amount on a bunch of ‘unknowns’ whose only acting experience was an extra in a McDonald’s commercial, think again. We as fans are forced to watch the game from the sidelines, and pray Shyamalan doesn’t fuck everything up. As the production team, they want a quality movie just as much as we do, and that requires quality acting, among other things.

   I suppose the ‘beauty’ of Hollywood is to send the audience into the world it’s trying to portray, through costume, make-up, music, editing, etc. One of the best production teams I’ve ever seen is making this movie. Andrew Lesnie did the cinematography for the three Lord of the Rings films (He’s got Oscars to prove his badass-ness), James Newton Howard is doing the score, Mike and Bryan are execs…this film adaptation isn’t going to be half-assed, it’s going to be epic. As far as the cast is concerned, I still stand by my original opinion of Jesse McCartney. I think he’s perfect for the role of Zuko (minus Basco of course) because he [i]looks[/i] the part, regardless of his ethnicity, and has acting experience. I can’t say much for Nicola Peltz, but choosing Jackson Rathbone for Sokka was a smart move on Shyamalan’s part. By sticking him in this role, and getting rid of that god-awful hair he had in Twilight, you are automatically making instant Avatar fans. Twilight fans are now going to flock to see this movie JUST BECAUSE Jackson Rathbone is in it, and the same goes with Jesse McCartney. I don’t think the Avatar fanbase is large enough to match this films budget, so bringing in known stars is a way to fill seats without spending millions more on heavy advertising.

   Ughh, I’m getting tired. I’ll add more later.

   Zoë said this on January 26th, 2009 at 4:16 am

3. Well to me most of the things you mention right there do seem terribly like the assian version of Black-Face, more then anything…

   Taylor Lautner should not have played the role of Jacob Black since he’s actually white, he didn’t really looked Native to me, then again, he was supposed to be of miced heritage (I think) so it could go either way…

   But actually it’s more like casting all white girls for Memoirs of a Geisha, yeah, like Jessica Simpson playing whaever the fuck Geisha was the main one, THAT’S HOW IT FEELS, specially after Sharlatan, I mean, Shamalan, made such a big fuzz about ‘casting unknowns’, ofcourse, I am pretty sure they are low on butget and I won’t pretend to get it all…

   But isn’t it cheaper finding NEW FACES instead of PAY A LOT TO THIS KNOWN WHITIES?

   Anyways… I am just terribly etnical so the sole idea of there still existing such a bald racism (Corporative or not, the issue is obviously about race, not money as they are probably spending more in this cast then they would otherwise), its just mind numming…

   But this is getting long and tiredsome, lots of people have said it already…

   Asian version of BLACK-FACE, nothing more in there, another reason not to watch the film.

   On happier subjects, Pushing Dasies will hopefully get the same treatment as Firefly (Meaning Comics ad a Movie, and more comics), so Zoë and Luna you should definetly watch this show, and it was actually cut down not because of its cost, but because it didn’t got enough viewers, even tho they did everything they could to fuck with the viewers they did had (Time changes, wrong order on the episodes) and it STILL GOT A HUGE FANBASE…

   Which goes to show how stupid people in charge usuallt are xDDD

   Anyways, being kinda ranty right now, will say more later lol

   Ghash Ironhand said this on January 26th, 2009 at 10:56 am

4. Get ready for an even LONGER POST!

   Zoe makes some very valid points, but in a way it sort of implies that in a way we as viewers are racist as we don’t accept anything other than the right ethnic actors to play a certain role. Which is not true.

   Yes there are requirements that we consider before casting a role, such as if that person can actually act or not. But I refuse to believe that out of all the millions of people who could have possibly auditioned for the role (if they held auditions at all or if they only offered the roles to specific actors), that there was no one who was not ethnically correct to fit the role–that none even had the skill.

   Just because Katara and Sokka come from an indigenous culture does not mean that we demand that the actors have to be Eskimos. They could be anything in fact. Hispanic, Black, Indian, Filipino, Arab, whatever. But to go as far as to say that there was none among all these many cultures that couldn’t fit the role? Really?

   Ghash had the right idea about Memoirs of a Geisha. There was some controversy as to why the actresses were Chinese in a Japanese themed movie when it was released at the time. We have to note though that this controversy is mainly perceived by Chinese people, who felt they were wronged greatly by the Japanese in History and that by acting in this movie they were betraying them in some way. But from an American standpoint, we had no problem with it, because they had the LOOK of it. They had the skill, and we can easily accept them in their role. We don’t even have to question the suspension of belief for very long.

   It would be considerably less easy for us to accept, as Ghash said, a white person who was obviously not born in an Asian culture, who looked not even close to Japanese, and then go on to say that there was no actors/actresses out there that could fit the role besides the white people.

   It probably wouldn’t have smarted the fan base so much if this wasn’t the case for the main cast of Avatar (that of our immediate heroes). But because it IS, it’s almost like a slap in the face. Four kids. All white. No other actors of the right look or ethnicity with the skill?

   I also think the whole “Cast them for them for their status” is also a weak argument. With something like Avatar, I don’t think it will get any problems drawing in its audience without big names to fill in. It also implies that the creators of Avatar are relying on pure popularity in order to get the fans to come rather than to rely on the story, the actual actor themselves. You’ve seen these actors before. You know they can act. Yes, I do not question their prowess at all. To say that it is a smart move…is controversial. Look around. Isn’t it doing the exact opposite?

   Even white people are upset. Does Hollywood think that America is THAT shallow that we can’t connect to a character just because they aren’t what the world perceives to be the perfect American? Usually white? Trust me, it happens ALL THE TIME. To water down something that is ethnically set in a certain world by casting white people, or sticking a white person as the main character in a story set in another culture.

   Here’s an example, “The Forbidden Kingdom” tells of an American boy who gets whisked away to ancient China where he meets a Monk and a Drunken God (Jet Li and Jackie Chan) to deliver a staff awaken the Monkey King. I sat there in this theatre, watching this kid, and tried to accept him. But it turned out so cliché. He had no personality which was probably best so we ourselves could project our image into this kid, and what’s more, I felt the whole idea that him being from the future and being whisked back into Ancient China was COMPLETELY unnecessary. The story could have worked just as well, if not better, if there was an already existing character in that storyline. A poor village boy perhaps who dreamed of being a Kung Fu master, but lacked the skill. It would have tightened up the story so much more. If you haven’t watched this film… please do. You’ll know what I mean.

   It is VERY hard to get attached to the main character.

   Don’t even get me started on DBZ.

   That isn’t to say that not all films that do this are bad (I enjoyed Last Samurai quite a bit) but in that case it was based off an already existing true story about a French man who decided to become samurai. What DID piss me off about that film though was that they turned all French story aspects of that film and made it an American conflict with the Japanese when it had been the French against the Japanese the entire time. We could have just as easily done the same story with (not necessarily French actors) French culture/historic aspects.

   As for possible casting lists, Misora (a fanfic author of Avatar and Witch Hunter Robin, who is notably white herself) made up an excellent list. Keep in mind that even in her own list that there are also white actors she chose that seem right for the role, so we can’t argue that she herself is prejudiced against all white people off of Avatar, and I agree:

   http://misora.livejournal.com/82141.html#cutid1

   Youkai Yume said this on January 27th, 2009 at 10:24 am

5. BTW, I apologize if any of that offended anybody. I was just sort of typing as fast as I can to get it all out and it’s only my opinion.

   Youkai Yume said this on January 27th, 2009 at 10:29 am

6. Sweet points Youkai. When they casted Rathbone and McCarthey at the time, I’m sure they weren’t expecting this kind of controversy. If a contract has already been written up and signed…then crap, they’re sort of screwed, unless both parties agree in a termination. We’ll see how this turns out, because they start filming in a few months, right?

   Quick question: If something is animated in an ‘anime’ style, does that mean the characters animated are asian? This isn’t meant to be a sarcastic question, I’m just genuinely curious. The characters in the Avatar world vary in appearence between each other, and especially in the case of the Air Nomads, what ethnicity are they actually supposed to be when translated to the real world? I suppose I can ask that for every Nation.

   And that casting list by Misora was genius. Rick Neely ftw! I think Devon Aoki would play a great Azula instead of Ty Lee, Jasoc Isaacs pwns, and I’m still not sure on Sokka, Katara and Aang. That Kristen Kreuk chick looks alright, but I don’t know what she’s been in.

   Zoë said this on January 27th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

7. Not at all. I’ve seen a lot of anime style shows where the characters weren’t asian in ethnicity at all. It’s just a style that a certain part of the world prefer to animate in. For example, we live in America so most of the stories that we tend to tell takes place in America. Even though the cartoons that are animated are of a certain style, the characters aren’t always american, they can be any ethnicity we want them to be. It’s just simply a style.

   Same with anime. Since the majority of anime is made in Japan, and most of the stories that they come up with take place in their homeland, their characters end up being Asian. But examples of characters who are NOT of seemingly asian ethnicity that we seen in anime style shows include Emma (which is a victorian england romance story and therefore all characters are british) or even american anime shows like Totally Spies. Obviously most of the characters are most definitely not Asian, and so on and so forth.

   Youkai Yume said this on January 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

8. Kristen Kreuk…wasn’t she Lana Lang in Smallville? I’m pretty sure that’s her.

   Youkai Yume said this on January 27th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

9. Sometimes I wonder if I should have ever watched that show…

   Zoë said this on January 28th, 2009 at 2:20 am

10. Just about everything that can be said on the subject has been. I would just like to add that Shamalamadingdong early on expressed that he wanted to get unknown to play these roles (at least I believe that’s true, I cant remember if it was maybe just something a fan said and got spread around as truth) but getting people like Jasper and Jesse mc popstar just to bring their fan base into the theatres is a little disrespectful to the fans of Avatar.

    “Hey, you guys who waited MONTHS in between seasons of the show and watched the characters grow and stuck with it and supported it all these years, yeah, you aren’t good enough. We’re going to borrow some psycho 14 year old girls from these two douches fan bases.k thx.”

    It’s stupid. And I don’t know what you people have been watching, but Jackson was in Twilight, which kind of automatically means he can’t act and Jesse McCartney is pretty much a one hit wonder wannabe Nick Carters little brother (which is sad) and Zuko is the thoughest charcter and I know he wont have the chops for it.

    As far as the race issue, I agree with Youkai. The characters would have to look the part. Like if Katara was played by an Indian or a Mexican, it’d be a little easier to believe than her being a white girl with a spray on tan.

    However, if getting money from a wider audience was their aim, you’d think they would have gotten more asian actors. I mean, what person in there right mind goes to see a martial arts movie with white people in it? You’d see Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan over Steven Segall anyday and everyone knows it. So I don’t know what the hell the people making this movie are thinking. Maybe they chose the cast knowing that it would stir up this much controversy thusly getting people talking about the movie and later getting people to see it to see if all the controversy is justified. As they say, no publicity is bad publicity…or something like that. I’m still pretty heavily medicated.

    Luna said this on January 28th, 2009 at 3:29 am

11. Hey! I’ve been a fan of this podcast for a while, but was always nervous about saying something because I’m not Zutarian (I don’t ship Kataang though- It’s lame) Anyways, I was really bored today, and I hadn’t known that you guys were still doing this podcast. So I came here, for some random reason, and got really excited that you were still doing it.

    Anyways, if you want to be like, homies or whatever, awesome.

    If you want to hate me, that works too :p

    Summer said this on January 30th, 2009 at 9:13 pm

12. Why would we hate a new commer? We are not THOSE KIND OF ZUTARIANS xDDD

    We don’t just hate anything that ain’t Zutara, I personally could had respected (Even liked) Kataang if Aang had done something to earn her, not just have Katara being thrown at him (Same as with the Avatar state) just because he is the ‘hero’.

    Back on subject tho…

    I think we all agree the Casting for the Avatar Movie is fucked up, don’t we?

    Ghash Ironhand said this on January 31st, 2009 at 11:17 am

13. I’m not a Zutarian, and they like me just fine. =D

    (they still haven’t converted me >=D)

    Jessie said this on January 31st, 2009 at 12:44 pm

14. What DO you ship, Jessie?

    Youkai Yume said this on January 31st, 2009 at 2:45 pm

15. Good question

    Ghash Ironhand said this on January 31st, 2009 at 10:45 pm

16. I don’t really ship for Avatar…

    I ship for JLA, X-men, Teen Titans, a couple animes, and original stories my friends and I write.

    Jah…

    Cora/Benji FTW.

    =P

    Jessie said this on January 31st, 2009 at 11:32 pm

17. Lol, as long as you don’t ship Kataang, all is flippin’ well yo!

    And welcome to the pod Summer, it’s nice to have a new face around, only like…without the face.

    Zoë said this on February 1st, 2009 at 2:07 am

18. Awesome xD

    Summer said this on February 1st, 2009 at 3:03 pm

19. Hi I’m a long time listener, first time commenter. I was also a little nervous to comment like Summer because I don’t ship Zutara. I’m kinda a Kataang shipper (don’t kill me) and i’m a Zutara shipper. Anyway, I just wanted to say I love your podcast and hope you still do it for a while. Also, in your next podcast, you think you could do a small discussion on the Percy Jackson series? I also really like those books and I would like to hear some Zoe and Luna opinions on that.

    Aly said this on February 3rd, 2009 at 5:46 pm

20. Well i’m a new listner, i found out about you guys due to the AMAZING picture YoukaiYume put up on DeviantArt.

    I don’t ship Kataang. Or Avatar at all really. *blushes in embarrassment* I watch it a little bit, but i’m mainly a Yugioh/House/Scrubs fangirl. But i’m glad you made this, i love listening to you guys talk, you remind me of me and friends

    And is that computer still up for sale? Cause i may be interested!

    Love, Kuro

    Yami Kuro said this on February 3rd, 2009 at 6:46 pm

21. Never be afraid to comment or post in the Chat box! Were a friendly people! (most of the time…just don’t take the girls pie it seems to upset them) We love new people it means more friends in which to debate the Hunkyness of Zuko and the awesomeness that is Dr.Who/Torchwood! ^^

    Nightscream said this on February 3rd, 2009 at 11:24 pm

22. Hey Zoe and Luna, have you guys read the Last Olympian exercpt from the “Percy Jackson and the Olmypians: The Demigod Files”?

    Aly said this on February 11th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

23. Oops, wrong comment page XD

    Aly said this on February 11th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

24. Wow, a ton of comments! I’ve been really busy and haven’t really listened to any of the podcasts since the last time i commented, which has been like AGES ago. Anyway, I was at my job and had nothing to listen to (i finally broke down and bought an iPod) and thought, ‘what about a podcast?’ It was awesome!! I’m really glad I did!! I was totally not bored, and was smiling my entire shift! It was like talking (or listening) to good friends! Looking forward to more great podcasts!! I’ll keep commenting after i listen to the old(/new to me) podcasts!

    (Also, the banner looks AMAZING@!!)

    Rose Gilmore said this on February 22nd, 2009 at 7:31 pm

25. I’ve finally found time to listen to you guys again. Slowly catching up. I Think you guys mentioned the kid kicking you in the shin, and how it was a mid-west thing. Yea I think you’re right. I’m from Kansas, and I’ve seen it happen a couple times. My sister has even done it to me.

    Yeah. I think I might be the only listener from Kansas!

    Brenda said this on June 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am